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Grantsmanship
http://charitychannel.com/groups/grantsmanship
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All Aspects of Grantsmanship
February 14-
 | Jennene Colky Several years ago, a poster to the old GRANTS forum posed the question "How long does it take to do a grant?" My recollection is that, first, we defined "doing" a grant to include conceptualizing, planning, researching funders and, finally, writing proposals to meet funder requirements, including the time of everyone involved, not just "the grantwriter." A vigorous discussion ensued and we ended up with a consensus (sort of) on average number of hours. Two questions: 1) has anyone out there, for whatever reason, actually saved this info? And, 2) what would the group say regarding hours on the above-described work for federal, state, local public funding, as well as for private foundation, corporate foundation funding and even the LOI, as these are the categories for which hours were developed in that long-ago original post. Your input is appreciated.
a year ago | |  Cheryl KesterJennene, I have no idea where I found this information, but years ago I saw something in print that said 80-100 hours for federal grants. I don't usually track my time, but when I started consulting I did so I could set reasonable flat fees. I am a fast worker, and I have found this estimate to be true, if not low.
Don't know if there is an "industry standard" for a foundation grant, but as you know, these are all over the map in how complex they are. If it is a new client, we can spend upwards of 30 to 40 hours on their first proposal as we really dig deeply into getting to know their organization and its mission and learning to "talk like them." Subsequent proposals for the same project would not take as long. However, if we have to more than write a one page letter, the minimum is probably 10 hours of client contact, project discussions, strategizing about how to present the budget or the objectives, and then writing and editing, of course. Hope this helps.
 Doris Jean HeroffJennene, I believe I have this on my old computer....or at my last place of full time employment where I still have an email account and records. I will search for this, but I believe that Cheryl is correcct on the Federal Grants. I believe we said that it was 40-50 hours for the average grant that had a fairly sophisticated set of guidelines and approx. one day for small grants or for letters of intent. If I find that thread, I will post it or send it to you directly.
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 | Rod Helm Looking for a new way to present data? Slopegraphs may be a useful tool. Read all about 'em at http://charliepark.org/slopegraphs/
a year ago | |  Sharon SkinnerThanks for sharing this, Ron. I found it fascinating and now my brain is trying to figure out a place to use a Slopegraph.
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 | Carl Peterson I recently took early retirement and am now doing contract grant writing and enjoy the flexibility of working from home. Was involved with Charity Channel back in the beginning and am looking forward to its resources and connecting with other grant writers.
about 2 years ago | | |
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October 27-
 | Sara Wenger I’m wondering how other grant writers handle this situation: I recently accepted a new position and am now part of a three-person grant department. In my prior positions, I was the sole person in charge of grant writing, so it was easy to keep track of how much money “I brought in” (although, even then, I was uncomfortable with this idea, as there is much more involved in both winning and losing grants than the actual written proposal). I am not sure in this new position how to keep track of the amount of money I raise – very often I will write part of a proposal, but not all of it. Or I submit it, but much of it was written by one of the other writers for a past proposal…etc. I would like to venture into freelance grant writing at some point in the future, and I know many consultants will give a total amount they have raised, or will give potential clients a list of grants they have won. How can I truthfully and accurately keep a list like this if I am working collaboratively with two other writers?
about 2 years ago | |  Rebecca ShawverSara, I have struggled with this same question in the past; and, I decided to count the funds raised from all the grants in which I played an active collaborative role.
Why? Because all grant writing is a team effort. It takes a team to gather the data, make the program plan, design measurable indicators of success, create a budget that covers all the costs, maintain working relationships with funders (both private and government), plan for the comprehensive evaluation of the program, and write a realistic sustainability plan. In reality when I'm the only one actually writing the words on paper, it was still the team that created the winning (and occassionally losing) application.
So I honestly believe that you should count all grant awards for which you were an active team member. When you discuss your success with potential consultant clients, simply emphasize the important of team work -- and that your successful achievements were made by a team in which you took the lead at times and played a supporting role at other times. I hope this helps you in making your decision, Becki
 Sara WengerThanks, Rebecca! I totally agree with your reasoning and will take your advice!
 James MooreSara
Rebecca is correct.
The simple fact of the matter is that a grant proposal can be so poorly done that it can cost an organization a grant, but winning a grant depends on many other factors. To win a grant, the proposal essentially just introduces a funder to a program or project in a clear and concise manner--providing all the documentation required by the funder. After that, the merits of program and the organization conducting that program are what will actually sell the grant. Ideally, a grant-writer's work will be transparent or invisible to the funder.
The grant-writer’s role is actually very limited. S/he has probably researched funders and chosen targets wisely. From there, the grant-writer presents a good case for the program, and then dots all the "i's" and crosses all the "t's." If so, the funder gets an accurate, compelling picture of what the organization hopes to do, and the funder can decide whether the funder's mission is in sync with the applicant organization's mission, and then make an informed decision.
After all, in most cases, grant funding is a matter of contracted outsourcing to fulfill a funder’s mission. The funder’s mission is accomplished through “contractors” in the form of nonprofit organizations. The most well-written proposal in the world can’t secure funding if the organization that will fulfill the contract can’t deliver the goods or is selling a service the funder doesn’t want to buy.
To be simplistic, 10 years ago, ANYBODY could sell a Honda or Toyota, because the cars were so good they sold themselves on reputation and quality. On the other hand, a Dodge or Chevy sales person had a very difficult job, because the inherent value and quality of the product wasn't there. If you plan to promote your grant-writing skills, you’d be wise to focus in part on your “tough sells” – e.g. new money for an organization with no track rec
Sara WengerThanks for your thoughts, James! Your "easy sell" vs. "tough sell" point is a great one. We have several funders who give year after year - all we do is send in a two page letter once a year and the check shows up. We also just received a grant two days ago from a foundation we had no prior relationship with, which required several rounds of different submissions and an in-depth site visit. While the later grant was smaller than most of the ones which we receive year after year, it was hard won and would a great one to highlight with potential clients.
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 | Deb Ward Hi everyone!
I'm looking for some input on an issue that has risen here in WI. If you agree to partner with a lead applicant, do you expect to see the proposal and budget (at a minimum, your part of the budget!)that is ultimately submitted by the lead applicant? If so, do you ask for this regardless of the outcome, or do you request it if/when the proposal is funded? If not, what are your reasons for not asking to see this document? Have you ever had a lead applicant refuse to share a proposal with you that includes you as a partner? How did you respond?
Thanks for your help with this sticky situation!!
Deb
about 2 years ago | |  Jim ToscanoYou must see the document before it is submitted by the lead organization to ensure accuracy as well as to see what you are being committed to doing. it is quite unheard of for a sub-contractor not to see, not only their portion, but how they fit into the overalll proposal. Jim Toscano, Minneapolis heart institute Foundation
 Bill SmithYes, I had a lead applicant once tell me they would not make the full proposal and budget available to me, and they forbade me from asking the funder for it (HHS). Can they do that? I don't know. Did they get by with it? Yes, because I didn't consider challenging them worth the hassle at the time. Didn't want to get kicked out of future collaboration opportunities. Am I glad now that I handled it that way? I'm not sure. I don't deal much with federal grants, but I'd be interested if others have dealt with this.
 Deb WardThank you James and Bill! Others please send me your comments!
Bill, to your questions, I'm not sure HHS would have shared the proposal with you and it certainly would have sent up red flags to ask for it! I guess I just don't understand the thinking behind refusing to share a proposal with a project partner, especially if you need that partner or those partners to carry out the project!
James MooreDeb, as co-applicant, the lead applicant is, presumably, trading on your organization's name and reputation to help sell the contract to the funder. To the extent your organization is directly obligated to the funder under the agreement, and to the extent your organization is represented in the original proposal, I would say that seeing the full proposal and budget is vital to your organization's interest.
I can't imagine what could be in a proposal or budget with and alleged partner that even a subordinate partner should not see. Many red flags raise promptly in a situation like this:
1. Is the lead applicant representing your organization accurately?
2. Is the lead applicant fairly disclosing your share of the grant revenues, or could they be asking the funder for $1 for your organization's services and then skimming a significant portion of that $1 (over and above routine admin fees, if allowed) for themselves?
3. Is the lead applicant fairly representing its portion of the workload in the agreement, or might they be disproportionately burdening your organization with the bulk of the responsibility, while they keep the lion's share of the revenue?
These are, admittedly, paranoid speculation, but in lieu of full disclosure from the lead applicant, an alleged partner iis left to speculate. And, except in the case of protecting proprietary information (personnel salaries, trade secrets, and so on) it's hard to imagine a justification for this behavior that doesn't involve some sort of unsavory behavior on the part of the lead applicant. This is hardly the behavior of a partner.
I hasten to temper this reaction by saying that, if your organization is playing a fairly insignificant role as an unnamed subcontractor in the contract, then your organization's relationship is NOT with the primary funder, but with the lead applicant organization. In this case, THEIR agreement with the funder does n
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 | Rebecca Shawver I don't have a sample preliminary proposal for the SBIR competition, but I have one from the ATE competition last year that was rated highly. If you think seeing the format and wording that we used with the ATE, please let me know and I will forward it to you. My email is rebecca.shawver@brazosport.edu.
Wishing you much success -- NSF grants are a challenge to get, but I'm told once you're in the door, it becomes much easier to get another one.
about 2 years ago | |  Ann RonanRebecca -that is so generous of you! However, they're quite different - I'm trying to get a feel for the market opportunity and competition wording in the business arena. Thanks again though and if I can ever assist you, let me know!
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Welcome Rebecca Coleman about 2 years ago  Donald GriesmannHi Rebecca. I am sure you and your board and artists are scratching every corner in your locale and state. And you are finding few grants for the arts...and accessibility. If you do not, do create a resource committee of board, staff if any and the artists, but not a big committee. Look at all possible ways you can find funding and material. Develop a plan, goals and objectives and a timetable for tasks to be performed. Grants are the most difficult process for funding so looking more broadly is a necessity. There may be local grants available from corporations in your community of service. Having someone from those corporations on your board can help in a funding process.
These resources may be helpful to you-
Best web sites to find grants
http://dongriesmannsnonprofitblog.b...rants.html
How to find grants featuring many free e-mail based resources with timely grant information
http://dongriesmannsnonprofitblog.b...ities.html
Is the organization really ready for grants? This article may help you become ready or serve as a reminder of what it takes to prepare for a grant
http://dongriesmannsnonprofitblog.b...ional.html
I hope you can find some fish as you troill the grant river. Don
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 | Stephen Nill It's great to see the Grantsmanship Group thrive! With 750 members, it's definitely a great place to discuss any aspect of grantsmanship. :)
about 2 years ago | | |
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| Rebecca Shawver And I will be at the CharityChannel/GPA conference too.
about 2 years ago | | |
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 | Pamela Grow Kelly, I'm glad that you asked this question. I have primarily written grant proposals for general operating support.
Like any ask, you'll want to create a compelling case. It's our job as grantwriters to educate foundation funders to the realities of day-to-day operations. Often the best way to do this is through storytelling. For example: portray your administrative staff spending triple the amount of time on a task because of poor technology. The development director's challenges raising money without a database. I like to include articles as well. Here are a few: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...91750.html and http://blogs.hbr.org/pallotta/2009/...ship.html.
Don't be afraid to ruffle some feathers. Tell it like it is.
about 2 years ago | | |
September 03-
 | Sharon Jenkins Good Morning. I'm new to the group and I'm interested in where can I go to get funding for technology projects that focus on providing career awareness training to people with disabilities?
about 2 years ago | | |
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